Here's a link to the actual programme, available online for just a further 5 days:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qjlw

Doreen, when I was in hospital a few weeks ago I had the most lovely young nurse looking after me, she was from Germany. She would often sit with me of an evening and we would exchange stories, with me trying desperately to lead her astray, I can still dream.

On the night before my release she came to say goodbye to me, in the time I had been hospitalised we had become very close. We made our farewells and we did exchange a very gentle hug and I most definitely gave her a kiss on the cheek. As she made her way to the door she stopped, and looked at me with a look of puzzlement on her face, she told me our fathers and grandfathers would have been shooting guns at each other, we fired off one liners and a good time was had by all.

I don't believe people make war, for they have too much to lose. The people who make war are usually sitting in offices encouraging (ordering) others to pull the trigger for them.

Shazza said:

I think you'll find that sometimes war is inevitable when your safety and that of your friends is compromised.

Hitler had to be stopped and when he marched into Poland we knew that he was on his way to change our national language to German LOL. Likewise in Oz we could all have been speaking Japanese by now.

I don't wish to be confrontational but the allies who liberated the poor souls from the concentration camps were in no doubt that the war had been necessary.

Shazza you are right when you talk about WW2.    Hitler had to be stopped.. BUT..

he should have been stopped in his own country and by his own people.

I have Winston Churchill's 5 books about this war and I am sure that He wrote in BAND1. that it was an unnecessary war.

When we have a problem we should be able to sit down and talk,  trying to understand each others point of view.

We can't, we don't

Me, an interesting post  and how right you are.

We have bigger problems facing us

A well constructed and thought provoking post, Shazza. Your words will encourage most of us to examine how we feel on issues of oppression and treaties, and sadly in this part of the world they don't stack up too well.

I would imagine the Commonwealth Of Nations would be one of the largest treaties enacted, with all countries of the British Empire as members. I believe the general idea would be member countries working with each other and protecting its peoples. Your example of Indonesia invading Aussie or NZ is interesting but is only a very remote possibility. Let's come a bit nearer home and ask what the head on the Commonwealth has done to look after, and protect the rights of one of their most loyal countries, Fiji. The people of this seemingly damned country have had to take the full brunt of one military coup after another, virtually all their human rights have been removed. They have no right of protest, no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press and no rights of an independent judiciary.

What has the leader of the Commonwealth done to protect those people, who have always stood at the shoulders Commonwealth countries in times of strife? I would suggest not a lot. So far the countries that Fiji have always been allied to have refused access to their countries for sport, and refused right of entry to anyone related to anyone serving in the armed forces, Fiji has also been been suspended from the Commonwealth. I don't think any of those have helped the people of Fiji one bit.

I most certainly agree you we can't judge now on what happened then, but with Iraq in particular, there never was a reason to go to war. I think this lesson has been brought home in the USA and the UK in recent elections. Bush was put out to grass, and Brown is the colour of the pasture the UK labour party will be grazing for the next five years. 

On a positive note, I find it very refreshing to see old time politicians are being put out grass everywhere. Australia, New Zealand, the USA and the UK all have young, vibrant leaders, people who are able to think and move outside of the rigid guidelines of yesterday's party expectations.

Yes, 'Me' I usually avoid topics that could get heated, I've had my fingers burnt before on other forums and have been offended by responses from some posters – the trouble is we usually don't know our fellow posters personally and we don't know what colours their opinon eg the experiences they have had and the path they have walked. So, for example if the debate is abortion it could deeply affect some readers in ways we cannot imagine.

As for Fiji I share your despair. A commonwealth that expects even the smallest country to come to the aid of the 'Mother' country and then chooses to distance itself from smaller countries when it so chooses is imho cowardly and thoughtless to say the least.

As far as East Timor is concerned it is after all only 200 miles from Australia. Indonesia was settled by the Dutch and East Timor was settled by the Portuguese and this has always rankled with Indonesia who felt that geographically it was theirs. When the Portuguese abandoned East Timor quite suddenly in the 70's Indonesia marched in slaughtering anyone who resisted (thousands were killed) and you know what – this was done with the active encouragement of the US the UK and the Australian governments!

Many Australians were mortified as  the East Timorese people were held in high regard by Australian troops and Australians in general for their help and kindness to Aussie troops fighting the Japanese in the war in the Pacific during WW2. Many Australian lives were saved by these gentle people and we abandoned them.

Choosing your allies well must be an art because every country makes so many mistakes and Australia should have done better and honoured past good deeds.

Anyway, I must get off my high horse before I make myself unwelcome. I think that forums are really there for chit chat rather than the big issues.

Sounds 'Ocker' to me!     Like 'Bazza'  and 'Blue'.

Doreen, the government can't be blamed for any of the present day problems, the blame must sit squarely on the shoulders of the army. The country held free elections and the Indian people were well represented in the result including the post of Prime Minister, the army didn't like that so yet another coup threw the government out and now the people are leaderless.

The part that rankles with 'Me' is the problem has been handed over to the NZ and Aussie governments to see if they can find a fix, which of course we can't. Many thousands of Fijian's rely on relatives working in NZ and Aussie sending money home to keep the family together. The UK government have done what they excel at, nothing. No ministerial visit, no royalty visit or anything that may let the people know they are not forgotten. The Fiji army have complete control of the press, radio and the television news, the only time they allow journalists into the country is after a natural disaster, but that is different, this way the country is bound to get more aid. Someone has to pay the account to have such a large, totally unneeded, government controlled force, oh unneeded other than to keep their own people under control.

I'm not sure whether Fiji has had three or four coups in the last ten years.

Without pin pointing your locality Shazza, what part of 'the Big Island' are you on?

Shazza, I believe this situation was best summed up by the late Groucho Marx, this when he made it known, “I would never join a club that would have me as a member.”

I hate it when those uncomfortable situations arise and personalities clash. Anonymity is the safest way to go, this is why I protect myself from wanton females, I'm simply too old and my wife would never grant me permission of an increase in my weekly pocket money.

I will shortly be missing for a few days, On Thursday morning I am driving to Hawkes Bay to be reunited with my daughter, I should be returning home once more on Sunday Afternoon.